Comments on: Hitler’s Table Talk: An Update https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10978 Announcing appearances, publications, and analysis of questions historical, philosophical, and political by author, philosopher, and historian Richard Carrier. Sun, 08 Jan 2023 22:02:58 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10978#comment-27488 Thu, 04 Apr 2019 18:08:31 +0000 http://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=10978#comment-27488 In reply to Joel T White.

That entry may be forged. It is not present in Picker’s edition, which casts doubt on it having actually been made by Heim (as Picker had all of Heim’s entries before Picker’s tenure and published them).

It also is in context about organized religion (he is talking about “the Churches” and how they need to be subordinated to “the State”), not his own Positive Christianity as he is made to defend throughout the Table Talk—and even here: he is made to go on to say he is not advocating atheism but a proper, non-superstitious belief in God that serves the State and not the Churches.

It also isn’t accurately translated, but it would be a chore to retranslate the whole thing in context (it’s absurdly long, several pages, an additional reason to doubt its authenticity).

So its suspect nature is already enough to dismiss it. I briefly discuss such examples in my afterword to my original GSR article Hitler Homer Bible Christ pp. 188-90. But see now especially my New Update article (which reveals nothing in the Table Talk is actually the words of Hitler), and my article on Hitler’s alleged pantheism.

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By: Joel T White https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10978#comment-27482 Thu, 04 Apr 2019 13:39:19 +0000 http://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=10978#comment-27482 I couldn’t find any specifics. Europeans speak multiple languages and often translate across them without changing meaning. Is your exhaustive research able to help verify the specific quotes where Hitler talked about waiting to wait for Christianity to “die a slow death?”

“If anyone has needs of a metaphysical nature, I can’t satisfy them with the Party’s program. Time will go by until the moment when Science can answer all the questions.

So it’s not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of Science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that’s left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.”

Adolf Hitler, The Fate of Christianity, Hitler Table Talk, pp. 59-60

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By: Peter https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10978#comment-17534 Tue, 30 Aug 2016 19:22:48 +0000 http://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=10978#comment-17534 Wow. Good work! So the whole table talk is third hand information based on hearsay, recorded well after the fact, subject to deliberate editing and interpolations, and being (mis)translated into other languages. We might as well call it a Gospel!

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10978#comment-17522 Sun, 28 Aug 2016 13:51:08 +0000 http://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=10978#comment-17522 Corrections (28 August 2016):

1. “occupied Poland” = “what is now Poland.” Germany already controlled regions within the borders of Poland before the War, and the Wolf’s Lair was within those regions.

2. The original LOC documents have been returned to Germany and reside at the Bundesarchiv in Berlin-Lichterfeld. So their location is known. The Bormann-Vermerke (the complete German draft procured by Genoud, which in his possession may have always been a photocopy and never an original) and Picker’s notes (and the stenographs of Heim that he collected and worked from as well) are lost.

3. Dr. Nilsson is a postdoc researcher at Uppsala, not a professor.

4. Nilsson is finding that even the later years in the English appear to be translated from the French (with some few exceptions), so possibly Genoud did in fact have all of it then and little to none of the English was ever based on seeing the real German. Nilsson is also finding evidence that the translators might never have seen even the French text but had to translate from Genoud’s dictation (producing peculiar errors only explicable if that were the case). This evidence may be surveyed in forthcoming publications!

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By: Marc Miller https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10978#comment-17519 Sun, 28 Aug 2016 11:45:15 +0000 http://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=10978#comment-17519 Very interesting! I’ve been a WWII buff for most of my life ( I was building Panzer models when all my friends were building hot rods ), and have read dozens of books about the war. I was never aware that there was a controversy regarding Hitler’s religious beliefs until recently! I just thought that everybody knew he was a Catholic… But, I can understand how Catholics might want to disown him… They already had a long line of mass murders on the books before Hitler came along!

Thanks for the interesting post!

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By: Chuck Messenger https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10978#comment-17518 Sun, 28 Aug 2016 01:46:20 +0000 http://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=10978#comment-17518 Richard,
Great work! You allude to alterations having been made by Trevor-Roper to the original text – in particular, “passages depicting Hitler as an anti-Christian atheist”. What does it appear that Hitler _really_ said, and what did Trevor-Roper change it to?

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By: Margaret deVelden https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10978#comment-17517 Sun, 28 Aug 2016 01:09:13 +0000 http://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=10978#comment-17517 Richard – you’re making history so interesting and fun ☺ (many many months ago I listened to HHBC). It really is exciting that your work was cited and now the research continued by Dr. Nilsson! I’ll be looking forward to the next update. Margaret

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