Comments on: Lataster v. McGrath: Jesus Must Be Real…Because, Reasons https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763 Announcing appearances, publications, and analysis of questions historical, philosophical, and political by author, philosopher, and historian Richard Carrier. Mon, 26 Sep 2022 03:19:33 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.2 By: db https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30349 Sun, 21 Jun 2020 16:35:17 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30349 In reply to Patrick Lemaire.

Another well worth reading:

• Cain, Benjamin (21 June 2020). “Clarifying and Debating the Christ Myth Theory”. Medium.

I’ll just close by reemphasizing that I’m not saying anyone can prove Jesus didn’t exist. I’m saying the available evidence is too ambiguous or otherwise problematic to establish any particular model of an historical Jesus beyond reasonable doubt. If all such models not just can but must be doubted, there’s no way of knowing, from our standpoint now with the evidence we have, whether anything like the familiar Jesus actually lived. Given that extreme uncertainty, a mythicist scenario becomes at least as plausible and as likely as any of the historicist ones.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30245 Wed, 10 Jun 2020 00:35:42 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30245 In reply to Jhonnata Cabral Cavalcante.

I can’t discount OHJ. Amazon already undercuts me. You won’t get a better price than there.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30244 Wed, 10 Jun 2020 00:33:49 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30244 In reply to Jhonnata Cabral Cavalcante.

If Q existed, it definitely was composed in Greek, using the Greek Septuagint as its base text for the Scriptures. All scholars agree on that. And there is no evidence of any previous Aramaic version.

Please actually read my book so you will understand these things: On the Historicity of Jesus. Ch. 10 shows how Q material is later legend spun in Greek; there is no evidence of an Aramaic origin for it.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30243 Wed, 10 Jun 2020 00:30:38 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30243 In reply to Jhonnata Cabral Cavalcante.

Oh no. You seem to be misinformed. Paul routinely uses brother in a non-biological sense and such was also widespread in Greek, particularly in salvation cults. In fact Paul tells us he knows of cultic Brothers of the Lord (he describes this several times); but he never tells us he knows of biological Brothers of the Lord. So we have no basis for assuming he means the latter whenever he employs the term; worse, since he knew both kinds existed, if he meant biological, he would have to specify, to make sure no one mistook him. That he doesn’t, means he knew of only one kind. And he only describes one kind: the cultic. And yes, Paul calls Christians brothers of the Lord. Because all sons of God are brothers of the son of God. It was fundamental to Christian teaching. And not just in Paul: Hebrews declares the same thing. So does Ephesians.

It’s clear you have read none of my work on this. Please get informed.

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By: Jhonnata Cabral Cavalcante https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30232 Mon, 08 Jun 2020 01:59:41 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30232 In reply to Richard Carrier.

oh interesting point. But i really don’t know the jew context evidence for that. I really would like buy many of your books and so in english (like OHJ and Not The impossible faith and J P Holding equivalent) but they are so expensive for Brazilians that i need more time to get them. MUCH MORE!… And I know that you don’t like to receive link for videos but i just want contribut for discussion – like in Evans’s debate – puting here N T Wright did answer you in Unbelievable radio show. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyyR5S4lMgg)

would you answer too?

is it possible to give me a discount, just for OHJ?

(yeah, it’s expensive: https://www.amazon.com.br/Not-Impossible-Faith-Richard-Carrier/dp/0557044642 and https://www.amazon.com.br/Historicity-Jesus-Might-Reason-English-ebook/dp/B00QSO2S5C/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_pt_BR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=richard+carrier&qid=1591581432&sr=8-1)

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By: Jhonnata Cabral Cavalcante https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30231 Mon, 08 Jun 2020 01:38:59 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30231 In reply to Richard Carrier.

Then you don’t believe that there was not a pre-tradition in aramaic prior then 50’s??? That’s consistend of what you believe about new testament. And many scholars believe that there is no celestial jesus in this tradition.

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By: Jhonnata Cabral Cavalcante https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30230 Mon, 08 Jun 2020 00:59:36 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30230 In reply to Richard Carrier.

But then if you said that is all inclusive, it’s ambiguos, we don’t know. But if you get evidence for understand that is demonic power, why you don’t get evidence to accept that “Brother of the Lord [Jesus Cristh]” means biological? once that ‘brother of someone’ would means biological brother in all greek texts! And paul never said that all batized christians are “brothers of the Lord”. he just call them brothers only.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30179 Sat, 30 May 2020 17:02:13 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30179 In reply to Alif.

Your last comment is illegible.

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By: Alif https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30172 Sat, 30 May 2020 07:49:28 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30172 In reply to Richard Carrier.

Truly cummendabl. Only sort’v reasun wurthy. Havn’t used FB in yonks. U might be in their shus wun day as might we all. how evanescent.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16763#comment-30161 Thu, 28 May 2020 18:18:19 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=16763#comment-30161 In reply to Charles McGuyer.

Paul tells us repeatedly he persecuted Christian churches. That’s how he knew their leadership structure and all their public teachings (and probably their secret teachings as well; he claims otherwise, because he had to to be accepted as genuinely chosen, but one can rightly be suspicious—as the Galatians were: that’s why he write a whole chapter to them swearing up and down that their suspicions are unfounded).

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