I’ve discussed the fact before that the first Christians believed Jesus was secretly an angel who came down from heaven in the guise of a man (a conclusion with which even Bart Ehrman now concurs). Even if Jesus was a historical person they believed this (a key point in my new book Jesus from Outer Space). And even if semantically you dislike the word “angel” and imagine the first Christians employed some other term for what he was, still they believed he was an eternal being who descended from what they understood to be outer space. And this idea features as well-documented background information in my peer reviewed study On the Historicity of Jesus (index, “angels and angelology,” “Logos,” “Melchizedek,” and of interest to today’s topic, “Michael”). For articles on my blog covering this subject in more focus, see The Original Scriptural Concept of ‘The Lord’ Jesus, Can Paul’s Human Jesus Not Be a Celestial Jesus?, and my two articles on Larry Hurtado’s bizarre attempt to deny this: The Bizarre Fugue of Larry Hurtado and The Difference Between a Historian and an Apologist. Of course the Jehovah’s Witnesses have long claimed to have uncovered the secret truth that, in fact, Jesus was none other than the Archangel Michael, traveling under another name (one that just happens to mean God’s Messianic Savior, suggesting that name, in this case, is fabricated: Christ means Anointed ergo Messiah/Messianic; and Jesus, i.e. Joshua, i.e. Yeshua, means God’s Savior). And there is a good case to be made that they are right. And this case is most expertly laid out in Darrell Hannah’s doctoral dissertation, later revised and published by Moer Siebeck and then Wipf & Stock in 1999: Michael and Christ: Michael Tradition and Angel Christology in Early Christianity.
I have not thought this equation defensible enough to include as any premise in my work to date. I still consider it an intriguing possibility with some support in the evidence, but not something one can reliably “prove.” Although I think now, after having read Hannah, the case is better than I thought (even if still not iron clad). Hence in On the Historicity of Jesus I only mentioned it as a potential (not proven) path in thinking from Daniel 9 and 12 to the core originating Christian concept of Christ:
Even the original forgers of Daniel 9 were already imagining something along these lines [of connecting in some way the messiah who dies in Daniel 9 with the figure who returns to bring God’s final victory]. Modern scholars are generally agreed that its authors were saying that the then-high-priest Onias III was a Messiah (a Christ), and his death would presage a universal atonement, after which would come the end of the world—effected by the coming of the angel Michael. [Footnote: As explained in Daniel 12; Michael is not there called a messiah, but plays the role of what many Jews expected of the final messiah.] That’s already just one or two tweaks away from the Christian gospel. One of those tweaks would be simply equating the messiah who dies with the savior who returns to complete God’s plan (in other words, once again, combining the two figures into one): the second of which in Daniel is, again, the archangel Michael, called ‘the great prince’ in Dan. 12.1, whom a later interpreter could easily read as being the same ‘prince’ of Dan. 9.26-27 [Correction: 9.25] (the words are not identical but have a corresponding meaning), because the events of Dan. 12.9-12 are the same events, yet are assumed to follow the event of Michael’s ‘rising’ in 12.1 (which in the LXX employs exactly the same word used of Jesus’ resurrection in Mk 9.31 and 10.34). So it could appear Michael was meant to be the ‘prince’ in Dan. 9.26-27 [Correction: 9.25]. Because in Dan. 12.9-12 Michael is the one doing the things the ‘prince’ does in Dan. 9.26-27 [Correction: Michael is not the Prince in 9.26 but the Prince of 9.25 who, it is implied in 9.27, destroys the Prince of 9.26].
That this Michael is ‘the resurrected messiah’ would thus have been an easy inference for a later interpreter to make, in which event 9.25-26 could easily be read as being not about a Christ and a Prince but a Princely Christ, all one and the same person, who dies (9.26) and then rises from the dead (9.26-27 and 12.1). The Christian gospel is thus already right there in Daniel, the more so if Daniel 9 had been linked with Isaiah 52–53, which is exactly what [the Qumran Scroll] 11Q13 appears to do. But even without such a connection being made, the notion that a Christ was expected to die to presage the end of the world is already clearly intended in Daniel, even by its original authors’ intent, and would have been understood in the same way by subsequent readers of Daniel. [Added note: This is more or less also the conclusion of Israel Knohl’s The Messiah Before Jesus: The Suffering Servant of the Dead Sea Scrolls (University of California 2000), Michael Wise’s The First Messiah: Investigating the Savior Before Jesus (HarperOne 1999) and Daniel Boyarin’s The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ (New Press 2012).] The notion of a dying messiah was therefore already mainstream, well before Christianity arose. That this messiah did not correspond to any specific definition of any specific kind of messiah is not relevant, since we know the Jews had many diverse notions of a messiah, and frequently innovated.
OHJ, pp. 78-79
In case you missed it, notice again that in Daniel 12:1 Michael is said to “stand up” (a concept strongly associated with resurrection) and then raise up the righteous dead; and the Christians were, like the Qumranites before them (and in many ways a lot like them), searching the scriptures for hidden meanings exactly like this (an established approach called pesher: see OHJ, Element 8, Chapter 4). Since anyone believing this text must have been referring to an event under Roman rule had to be re-reading Daniel 9:25-26 as referring to only one person, and not two Anointed ones as originally intended, creating a new link between this and Daniel 12 would be natural: both the person killed in 9 and the person rising in 12 are then called a Prince or Ruler, and the latter fulfills the expectations of the final eschatological Messiah. So it is entirely plausible this is a “secret meaning” they took from the text, inspiring their entire “dying-and-rising” savior mythology as a hidden message predicted by God in his holy scriptures: the Anointed who dies in Daniel 9:26 is the Ruler who rises in Daniel 12:1. It therefore cannot be claimed this didn’t happen or that it was impossible. It was possible. And it could well have happened. The alignment of input and result is far too apposite to discount it. So we can’t rule it out.
This would have been reinforced by Daniel 12 saying Michael will arise to usher in the general resurrection (and the corresponding doom for Israel’s enemies) and that the intervening tribulation period would last “1,290 days,” in other words “half a week of years,” exactly matching Daniel 9:27, “from the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up” to the completion of Michael’s task. Someone trying to find a secret pesher hidden in all this could therefore have easily associated everything happening in 12 with what happens at the end of 9, and linked the two messianic figures into one, and thus “discovered” that God had predicted a dying-and-rising messiah all along. This is an even more sound a hypothesis than supposing the first Apostles just “thought it up all on their own” as a response to their Rabbi’s unexpectedly getting killed (or anything else). Far more likely they’d have discovered it in a pesher of scripture, exactly as they tell us they did. And this is by far the most obvious place to have found it (as also in Zechariah 3 and 6 and Isaiah 52 and 53, and so on, all of which texts can be linked by the same pesher logic as referring to the same events: see OHJ, Elements 5-9 and 16-17, Chapter 4). It’s a text they clearly were using to predict the messianic future. And despite its original authors’ intentions, it can easily be read the way the first Christians would want it to.
Now, all of that is plain enough. But there is a second step that then follows: if this is the case, then it means the first Christians did indeed believe Jesus was the archangel Michael, incarnate and in disguise (per 1 Cor. 2:7-8 and Philp. 2:7-8). Modern Jehovah’s Witnesses have actually adduced additional arguments for this conclusion, a couple of which do hold up as inferences of medium weight: Michael’s name means “Who Is Like God” (mikha–el) which is an appellation quite evocative of Jesus (who is the “image” and “glory” and “form” of God, ergo the one most “like” God); and early Christian literature (and, as it happens, much Jewish literature) portrays Michael as the commander of God’s angelic armies (e.g. Rev. 12:7), which corresponds to Jesus (Rev. 19:11-16, 2 Thess 1:7), since surely there can’t be two angelic hosts with different commanders. When the Pauline and Gospel apocalypses say Jesus will come with his army of angels to effect the end-times, in Jewish lore it was usually Michael doing this; the fact that they removed Michael and inserted Jesus suggests perhaps they were in fact equating them.
But there is more one can add. This apocalyptic role of Jesus in early Christian literature was also sometimes associated in related precursor literature to a cosmic lord identified as Melchizedek, which many scholars adduce good arguments for concluding was in fact another name of the archangel Michael (see Michael Flowers, “The Two Messiahs and Melchizedek in 11QMelchizedek,” Journal of Ancient Judaism 7 (2016): 194-227; Rick Van de Water, “Michael or Yhwh? Toward Identifying Melchizedek in 11Q13,” Journal for the Study of the Pseudepigrapha 16.1 (2006): 75-86; Joseph Fitzmyer, “Further Light on Melchizedek from Qumran Cave 11,” in Essays on the Semitic Background of the New Testament (Geoffrey Chapman 1971): 245-67; and, of course, Hannah’s Michael and Christ). Michael was also equated in some texts to the Metatron (the angel who communicated the voice and “presence” of God), who was known as having as many as “seventy names” (which would permit “Jesus,” a.k.a. “Savior of God,” to be one of them, as well as Emmanuel, “God Is With Us,” a.k.a. the “Presence” of God, a.k.a. the Metatron, a.k.a. Michael). But more importantly for our question is the fact that Hebrews also equated Jesus with Melchizedek, albeit covertly as a figure he was just like and in some sense replacing (OHJ, Element 42, Chapter 5, where I survey all the evidence connecting Jesus and Melchizedek), e.g. Melchizedek had “no father, no mother, no ancestry,” was never born, and is immortal, and was “made just like the Son of God” (Heb 7:3). But that they were in fact identical may have been the mystery being guarded (Ibid.); for concealing such secret angelic knowledge was not only part of the oath of the Essenes (who swore to keep secret “the names of the angels,” according to Josephus, Jewish War 2.145), but is also hinted at in the early Christian text of Ignatius and elsewhere in Christian literature. Which would also explain why we are never explicitly told Jesus and Michael are the same. Hence when we learn that at Qumran, Melchizedek would be the one who leads the heavenly host down to Earth to effect the final defeat of Satan and expiate the sins of the faithful—the very things Jesus is now imagined to do—that equation seems to be indeed one of the secret mysteries of the sect.
One reason Michael, Melchizedek, and Jesus were likely understood to be the same being is that all were said to be the High Priest of God’s Celestial Temple (the entire point of what is argued throughout Hebrews 5-9). As there can only really be one of those, it naturally follows that they were understood to all be the same entity, the Archangel of Many Names—precisely as Philo describes this same entity: God’s “firstborn Logos, the eldest of his angels, the ruling archangel of many names,” “the divine image,” God’s “Firstborn Son,” whose secret name is “rising” (take note of that), and who was “the High Priest” of God’s celestial temple, as well as God’s agent of creation, and the one whom God appointed lord over all the universe; and even keeper of the “Paraclete” (for passage citations in Philo see OHJ, Element 40, Chapter 5).
This is no trivial fact. For…
We know Jesus was also called the firstborn [son] of God, the Logos, and God’s high priest in the heavens, and the one through whom all things were made, and who was appointed Lord of the universe, and was the true image of God; and Christians were also called upon to try and emulate him and adorn themselves like him, just as Philo is calling us to do [with the archangel he is talking about]. This is far too improbable to be a coincidence.
OHJ, p. 201 (evidence establishing all these points there follows)
I there adduce evidence that Philo even thought “Jesus” was already known to be one of “the many names” of this archangel (this is debatable, though the case is not as weak as people who have never really examined it claim). But set that aside. Even if not (even if that name assignment was a Christian innovation), it is still undeniable that Philo’s Archangel of Many Names is exactly the angel the earliest Christians concluded Jesus had been—and thus still was. They are talking about the same angel. Notably Philo avoids ever explicitly naming any angels. He never mentions “Michael” or “Gabriel” for example; he always uses allusions and descriptives and code names, possibly for the same reasons the Essenes avoided it. So that he describes the Archangel of Many Names as God’s highest ranking angel and cosmic lord (who would thus be the principal commander of his armies) and his heavenly High Priest, it seems clear Philo would have understood this to mean Michael (as those were Michael’s defining roles). It thus follows so did the Christians—who simply didn’t explicitly say this, for the same reasons Philo didn’t.
Hannah points out further (pp. 22-25, 33, etc.) that the entire gamut of angelic roles most commonly assigned to Michael are the same ones assumed by Jesus: “angelus interpres,” the one who interprets God to man, their primary mediator, “intercessor for humanity,” the one who pleads on behalf of human beings and rescues them from evil, “leader of the heavenly armies” and high priest of the celestial temple (as just noted), “judicial defender and opponent of Satan” (he’s the guy usually arguing with and posing against Satan in God’s court, and beyond; and in the end, Satan’s ultimate vanquisher), “Israel’s…protector and angelic champion” and indeed the mediator of a future and final covenant with Israel (hint, hint), the “Prince of Light,” the highest ranking of all angels, and the one who takes on “the task of transporting the souls of the righteous to paradise” (and as we saw in Daniel, supervising the end-times—both destruction and resurrection). And it’s important to note that nowhere in Christian literature is there any theology of how Michael was deposed and demoted, or to what duties he was reassigned; in fact Michael is never mentioned in Christian literature alongside Jesus as a separate person. If the radical teaching of the Christians was that the greatest of all angels—Michael himself—was deposed and replaced by Jesus, it’s hard to imagine how they never spoke of this, never developed its story (think of all the stories woven about Satan’s demotion). This starts to look like evidence.
Hannah also explores to what extent the authors of Daniel, or the earliest Christian interpreters of Daniel, took the One Like a Son of Man, a celestial superbeing who is granted an “everlasting kingdom,” to also be a reference to Michael. It seems pretty obvious Christians read it as referring to Jesus, from the very beginning. Indeed it could easily have inspired their incarnationist doctrine, as we see from Jesus being made “Like a Man” and having “the Likeness of Men” in the Philippians creed, to Jesus being modeled as the “Son of Man” in the allegories constructed by Mark. But since Michael (and no one else) is the one who “rises” to resurrect the dead in Daniel 12, the lord and master of the universe described in Daniel 7 could hardly have been imagined to be someone else than the figure playing that role there. So again, the obvious inference is that Christians took both as referring to Michael. And in support of this Hannah assembles some evidence this equation was understood among Jews even before Christians got a hold of the text. And this would entail Christians recognized Michael as Jesus, their “Savior.” Likewise Hannah finds Jewish traditions in which Michael is the gate-keeper to Paradise and holds “the keys of the kingdom of heaven,” so it seems an odd coincidence that Jesus is the one holding those keys in the Gospels (and thereby able to hand them over to Peter).
Finally, clinching the matter are early Christian Patristic texts (ranging from Tertullian to Justin, Irenaeus, and Clement of Alexandria), in which Hannah finds all the same substitutions, and in ways that forestall a demotion or replacement theology (e.g. pp. 112-13, 163ff.). For example, Jewish tradition identified the burning bush, the leader of the angelic delegation of “three men” to Abraham, and the angel who wrestled with Jacob all as manifestations of Michael (or sometimes as the Metatron, but as we have just seen, it is not obvious that was ever thought to be a different person: e.g. pp. 118-21, etc.); but Christians, as manifestations of Jesus. Likewise, Michael was God’s agent of creation; for Christians, that was Jesus. Which means everywhere Michael was reputed the agent, Christians were now calling him Jesus. So it is not as if Jesus assumes the roles of Michael after his resurrection; Jesus has been assuming those roles throughout all history. That means Jesus didn’t replace Michael; Jesus has always been Michael. But these same sources might still speak of Michael in these roles without mentioning Jesus, leaving an ambiguity. Was one the exoteric and the other the esoteric teaching?
Consequently, any equation between them would still have to have been a mystery teaching; not only because we never explicitly hear about it (nor, either, are Jesus and Michael ever explicitly distinguished), but also because the only two references to Michael in the New Testament (Jude 9, paraphrasing a lost scripture, and Revelation 12:7-9, casting a mystical allegory) evade mention that they are really talking about Jesus (and one can find similar examples in the early Church Fathers). Hannah concludes these texts do not equate them, but only by adopting certain assumptions not innate to the text; I see the matter as much less decided. I occasionally disagree with Hannah’s reasoning elsewhere, such as when he joins the usual mistaken exegesis of Hebrews’ discourse on how Jesus is “as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs” as an argument that Jesus is not an angel, when obviously it is an argument that Jesus is an archangel—in fact, the archangel. A position these exegetes strangely never consider. The only texts that actually run counter to Jesus being equated with Michael afford only weak evidence at best: the mysterious treatment of a poorly articulated distinction between Jesus and Melchizedek in Hebrews; and the fact that in 1 Corinthians 10, Paul regarded “the rock” that followed Moses as Christ, while (as Hannah shows) Jewish tradition regarded the Pillar of Smoke and Fire that preceded Moses as Michael. But we have no further commentary on these distinctions, and we cannot know what mystery teachings attended them. The remaining evidence is more overwhelming, such that the preponderance of evidence supports an early esoteric Christian equation of Jesus and the archangel Michael.
Still, this conclusion remains inconclusive. There are ambiguities. And we have no smoking gun. So this still cannot be relied upon as an established premise. It is, however, a very plausible and tantalizing possibility. But even if not specifically equated with Michael, what is beyond dispute is that Jesus was believed to have replaced Michael (so what happened to Michael?), and to have been a celestial being so notable and eternal that he either most definitely was an archangel or he was a superangel: a being even more cosmic and divine than an angel, a being who effected even the creation of all the angels, and had ruled over them since the beginning of time. Ordinarily we would just call that an archangel: the chief, the one who sits above, the angels. No other term is suggested in the New Testament or anywhere else in Christian literature, so there really is no other basis for insisting on any other. Denying the appellation becomes mere semantics at that point. For whatever you think Jesus should be called, if not archangel, it would have to be something even more eternal and fantastical. Something pretty well approximating, in fact, a god. Though still not the God, as Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation,” who chose not to equate himself to God, and though he created everything else, he himself remains a created being, a subordinate to whom God assigns his various powers and prerogatives.
After the first century, as Hannah documents (pp. 163ff.), it is less clear how Christian belief evolved, not least because most sectarian streams of thought have been destroyed from the record, so we often don’t know. What evolved eventually into the politically-backed “Orthodoxy” of the 4th century definitely headed in a direction away from any angelological interpretations of Jesus. But this was against the trend of numerous contemporary sects. Thus one can find evidence (some clear, some ambiguous) of Christians distinguishing Michael from Jesus (or else opposing the belief that Jesus was an archangel), and evidence (some clear, some ambiguous) of Christians equating them (or at least, regarding Jesus as an archangel). But this does mean we do have clear declarations from the second-through-fourth centuries that Jesus was, indeed, one of the seven great archangels, and obviously, the first of them—both chronologically and by rank, and thus in respect to power and divine favor. Not all Christians agreed—as theologies and christologies evolved in diverse ways. But there is definite evidence for at least one through-line of believing Jesus was, and always had been, the supreme archangel. Which in Jewish traditions (even as attested in Christian sources!) was almost always identified as Michael.
The Shepherd of Hermas affords a particular example (Hannah, pp. 187-92): cryptically constructed, thus signaling a secret meaning only the wise are meant to discern (thus supporting the notion that any angelological understanding of Jesus was a mystery teaching and not something to be directly admitted to), yet carefully arranged with parallelism and code words to clearly indicate, to anyone discerning, that the archangel Michael and Jesus Christ the Son of God are one and the same. Hannah shows the moves by which this is effected and he’s definitely right. And he cites a slew of experts on Hermas who agree. That the proto-orthodox sect moved away from angelological christology thus likely explains why it gradually and quietly demoted the Hermas as scripture, such that it never made it into the canon; and by the end of the fourth century it was all but forgotten. Hannah has his own hypotheses about the chronological arc of the angel-Christ equation, although they hinge on some of the things I think he gets wrong (such as confusing Hebrews’ discourse against Jesus being a mere “angel” as somehow excluding him from the category of “archangel”). But he does agree the first century already sees every variant of angel Christology he examines, and these variants continue to evolve and battle each other in subsequent centuries. The prevailing of non-angelic Christology by the fourth century was a result therefore of politics rather than any evidence-based faithfulness to what the original Apostles imagined or believed.
So that’s what we know. It’s a bit more than I knew when I wrote On the Historicity of Jesus. And though it’s still not enough to promote an original equation of Jesus and Michael as fact rather than possibility, it does push that possibility higher in the echelons of probability. Even if we can’t prove it, it’s worth taking seriously. And regardless, that Jesus was from the very start regarded as an archangel (in fact the first of them all, from the beginning of time), in actual fact or in semantic equivalence, remains well-established.
Richard your work is always fascinating- just wish I could contribute more eruditely
Fascinating! Having hypotheses about the esoteric teaching of the Jesus mystery cult furthers the mythic stance. But one thing that is always hard to wrap my mind around is that I tend to think that forgers are dishonest but in this matter the makers of religious texts think themselves as “inspired” when they make up new stuff. I can see something akin to that process at work in apologetic speech such as when Mike Licona (I think) imagined that Jesus was an itinerant preacher who kept repeating the same sermons as a way to solve the synoptic problem, to have the gospels as independent testimonies and therefore as evidence for a historical Jesus. Licona does not see himself as making stuff up but as explaining something only he can see. One question remains: we can figure that the Jesus as messiah narrative was useful to explain the Daniel prophecy (itself a forgery for an earlier prophecy), and later to maintain belief in the wake of the temple’s destruction, so we have at least two reasons for people writing these texts but what’s the point of “Jesus is Michael” ?
To answer that you have to get the chronology right: Mark is writing at least forty years after the religion began (then an average human lifetime), and thus responding to recent events (the destruction of Jerusalem), so we can’t explain the origins of Christianity by appealing to Mark or his motives; Mark is a latecomer, responding to profound changes in the religion and its circumstances. The religion itself began long before it was known the Romans would actually destroy Jerusalem (the thinking was then more in line with Daniel, which never mentions this, but only the temple’s “desecration,” after which God and his angels would destroy everything).
So the mystery teaching (if such there was) that Jesus was Michael long predates the needs and circumstances of Mark and his well-crafted tale. When we look at the origins of Christianity, it is derived from Daniel and other associated texts (as I note, Isaiah 52-53 and Zechariah 3 and 6 were major, as also 1 Enoch, the Wisdom and Psalms of Solomon, etc.; the intertextual readings the Christians were doing with these texts I discuss in Chapter 4 of OHJ), and it is there that, in their circumstances, Daniel comes to mean to them that only one messiah is mentioned in Daniel 9 rather than (as originally intended) two, because that’s the only way to get the math to work (so that their time fits the Danielic calendar, as opposed to the Maccabean war era as originally intended). Once that step is taken, and the Son of Man figure in Daniel 7 is then taken to presage the Christ as well, it is obvious logic then to conclude Michael “rises” in Daniel 12 in the sense commonly understood by that word: he resurrects from the dead. What dead man would that then be who is rising? Only one is mentioned in Daniel: the dying messiah of Dan. 9. Hence when Michael is called the Ruler (Prince) in Dan. 12 as is (the first-mentioned) messiah in Dan. 9, that would be read as a clue; esp. since Michael does all the things “the messiah” generally was expected to do, ergo “this must be the hidden secret God wants us to know.”
Once that connection is made, then every role of Michael gets fixed to Jesus (high priest of the celestial temple, agent of creation, Imago Dei, and so on). And so it is. When we get to Ignatius in the second century, we see him alluding to some complex hidden secret about Jesus and the cosmic order relating to angelology and demonology, but he says he is forbidden to say it out loud in his letters (which means there were more things about this deemed relevant to Christian teaching than we are publicly told anywhere). We see evolutions of these weird secrets in the polemical texts against the complex theologies of other Christian sects, which we should not trust as even accurately related by those polemicists or as representing original mystery teachings but teachings as distorted and evolved as any others, but they nevertheless represent the kind of thing that these mysteries involved. Which means we cannot know exactly how the Michael link was used (what it meant; what it’s use was perceived to be) in these secret oral teachings, much less from the beginning. Because it was all a secret. The most we can do is catch enough hints to know that the link was nevertheless made.
So you are suggesting Daniel’s dying one and ruler are two sides of the same coin? Interestingly, there were Joshua coins in the ancient world with a shor (beast of burden destined to die) on one side and a rem (wild beast associated with conquering heroes) on the other (p. 23, David C. Mitchell, Messiah Ben Joseph).
You must have misread him. That coin is mythical. It never existed. He is quoting a parable involving imaginary coinage from the Medieval Jewish text Genesis Rabbah 39.11 (see here).
Plus, revising my comment from before:
My first thought was Mitchell’s work is interesting and contains a lot of useful sourcing but is far too speculative to be useful to historians. When discussing the Messiah ben Joseph in OHJ I relied more on the direct texts themselves (the Talmud, principally) and the latest peer reviewed scholarship. But on re-reading Mitchell’s works, I find he’s a very valuable resource, particularly if you are looking for arguments to plausibility and not just arguments to probability.
Oh yikes I did misread that! Unrelatedly, “Is that in the Bible” did a post on Michael and Jesus you might find interesting: Michael the Great Prince and Saviour of Israel.
Oh gosh! That’s also a really great article. Thanks for linking it in here. I did not know of it. It looks like Paul Davidson and I basically end up independently discovering and remarking on all the same things. He adds even more quotations and detail.
That link doesn’t work for me. I found it using a search engine, just flagging in case there’s a problem with the link that can be corrected.
So sorry. That was a mistake of my web editor. I have fixed it. Link should work now.
Really interesting and makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the write-up!
Great piece. This is fascinating stuff. Are you planning on doing a second edition of OHJ that will feature some of this type of information? Just curious.
Oh no. OHJ already mentions it, and it adds nothing to its argument (I already establish the angelology theory; it does not affect anything further whether that angel was Michael). All a second edition will add is a reference to Hannah for those who want to pursue it.
Ah. Ok. I see. Thanks.
Is a second edition planned? The first one seemed pretty exhaustive, so I was wondering if there would be any new material added that affect probability judgments you ended up with in the original edition? Just curious.
A corrected edition (with all the typos fixed) may already be in print (I submitted the corrected text to the publisher last year, so it’s just a question of when they get it to the press).
A proper second edition is on contract, and I have a good idea of what changes will be in it, but I haven’t completed it yet (and when I do, there are still the submission, proofs, and printing stages to go through, which alone can take a year).
There so far has been no revision in the works that has changed any of my probability estimates. It’s just technicalia (improved wording, heading off silly objections, correcting inadvertent misstatements, adding new references). But it will cite and respond to (in summary fashion) all the peer reviewed articles about the book or its content (as likewise all new books pertaining), which will be its most significant feature.
Hi Dr Carrier – I’m curious if you think there’s good reason to accept the usual dating of the beginning of Christianity at ~33CE?
It seems this dating is mostly based on the background details in the gospel accounts, but if those accounts were made up, & if other sects placed Jesus 100 years earlier, & if ~33CE is religiously relevant via the Daniel calculation, that dating seems much more problematic.
Paul’s letters do indicate that the first appearance of Jesus was to Peter, & that Paul met Peter, & thus that the religion began within Paul’s lifetime (or at least the visions – presumably the sect could have existed prior to that just based around pescher). However, I’m not sure how Paul’s letters are dated – are there independent ways to date them, or do they just use internal references to situate them relative to the already-assumed dates of the gospel & Acts accounts?
Obviously the church fathers & external references to Christians set a hard bound on how late the religion could have started; but if the gospels aren’t assumed to be at all historical, across how wide a timeframe do you think Christianity could plausibly have originated?
I discuss the issues with the way this date (and others) were chosen in Ch. 8.1 of On the Historicity of Jesus. And see my linked comments here. The question gets asked a lot so I think I will do a blog on this in July. But in short:
The evidence is ample that Paul wrote (as likewise the authors of 1 Clement and Hebrews, which post-date Paul) before the late 60s AD, and the content of his letters match two periods of history, the 50s AD and the 50s BC, owing to certain political references in them and their inter-relative span of time. Almost all external evidence, and all of it the earliest and best, argue for the 50s AD. The only evidence supporting the 50s BC is an extremely late and highly unreliable account in the Talmud, which if true should have shown itself in much earlier evidence as well. I don’t consider the matter settled, but since there is no use in speculating a 70s BC origin for Christianity (it changes very little with regard to, e.g. the historicity of Jesus), and the preponderance of evidence weighs for a 30s AD origin instead, we may as well just stick with that until someone can prove it’s incorrect.
Thank you! I look forward to reading the upcoming article. The linked comment was also helpful; I was unaware of the dating relative to Aretas.
As I read more, I keep finding things which consistently support your thesis (although maybe too speculative, especially for your purpose).
For instance, there is the Nag Hammadi “Melchizedek” scroll, which explicitly narrates an “ascension” of Melchizedek, who then witnesses the crucifixion of Christ, and then learning that it is actually himself in the future.
Another source, admittedly very late, is a sixth-century ostracon, somehow relating to a Michael cult.
Found here:
https://brill.com/view/journals/scri/14/1/article-p369_25.xml?rskey=AQ8KWK&result=2
I think a lot of key points to understanding how the apostles actually thought lies in the merkavah and hekhalot literature, which has direct parallels in both “gnostic” literature, and authors such as Clement of Alexandria and Origin. Since reading OHJ, I’ve found many more instances of direct references to mystery religions, as I’m sure you’re aware.
One quote is particularly remarkable, in that Clement implies that his mysteries are obtained directly from a cosmic Christ, saying Christ is his hierophant (one who initiates a student into the mysteries). There is also talk of “illumination,” (also found in Justin Martyr) which is also found in the Eleusinian Mysteries.
“O truly sacred Mysteries! O stainless light! My way is lighted with torches, and I contemplate the heavens and God; I become holy whilst I am initiated, but the Lord is the hierophant, and marks his initiate with the seal while illuminating him, and presents to the Father him who believes, to be kept safe for ever. Such are the Bacchic rituals of my Mysteries” -Clem. Alex. Protr. 12.120.1-2
There is also an article, (which I can send you if you are interested) which details an elaborate angelic mystery teaching found in Clement. This somehow “identifies” people with angels, based on their spiritual understanding. I had actually hoped you would comment on just this sort of thing.
https://brill.com/view/journals/vc/60/3/article-p251_1.xml?rskey=Y2ca8N&result=19
Sorry for the relatively off-topic tangent here, but I have been getting pretty interested in this stuff lately.
I cover all this in OHJ. You are not always correctly describing the material though. See my coverage for a corrective. The mystery religion connections are covered in Elements 11 through 14 in Chapter 4. For the Melchizedek scroll, and angels and angelology, see the index.
Thank you. I realize that my post was not totally coherent, and I missed the point I was trying to make. I will try to be more careful in the future (and avoid posting when I have sleep deprivation).
I will just clarify one question I had, please disregard the rest.
You establish (in Element 42 and Chapter 11.5) that there are two possible interpretations of the Melchizedek passages in Hebrews: either Jesus replaces him, or always was him. I thought that the Melchizedek tractate (Codex IX, 1) from Nag Hammadi (which I could not find mention of in OHJ) supports the latter interpretation. I also mistakenly called it a scroll instead of a codex.
According to Birger A. Pearson, “…if our reconstruction of the fragmentary text is correct – Melchizedek is given to understand that the spiritual triumph of Christ over his enemies will be that of Melchizedek himself!”
Pearson, B.A. & Giversen, S., “Melchizedek (IX, 1),” in Robinson, J.M. (ed.), The Nag Hammadi Library in English, Third Edition, (Leiden: Brill, 1990), 439.
Since we have a later tradition (Pearson dates it around the third-century) possibly supporting the view that Melchizedek always was Jesus, I assumed that this constitutes evidence for that interpretation of Hebrews. It could be either a mystery teaching that has survived into the third-century, or at the very least, evidence that some Christians also came to that same conclusion.
Is my reasoning is correct on this point?
I think that’s a reasonable inference. It’s just too weak to do much with (the evidence is late, reconstructive, and inferential rather than direct). In short, it evinces the possibility, but does not prove it was in place in the early first century.
It seemed sensible to me. 🙂
So you may be overly self-criticizing here.
Dr. Carrier, long ago I read a chapter from a John J. Collins book, he argued that the one like a son of man in Daniel 7 is Michael. The author (or authors) of the Book of Daniel makes pretty obvious that that guy is a chief angel, and the only chief angel in Daniel is Michael. I think his arguments are very convincing:
https://imgur.com/a/okcsuQT
Source: “Seers, Sibyls, and Sages in Hellenistic-Roman Judaism”, by John J. Collins, pp. 101-102
Thank you. I was aware of that—and I do think Hannah covers it; he discusses the fact that other scholars have argued this before. But I appreciate your thinking to link to an example here.
In paragraph starting “Now, all of that is plain enough” the reference should be to 2 Thess. 1:7, not 1 Thess. 1:7 in sentence ending “which corresponds to Jesus (Rev. 19:11-16, 1 Thess 1:7)”. Not a big deal but saw it in passing.
Thank you. The link was correct, but the text not. Corrected.